Another good reason to remain Conservative
I've been trying for months to politely ignore the obvious implications of Fudge's "Song of Songs," but it's been getting more and more difficult as other bloggers keep referring to the Talmudic ruling "“Trei Kali Lo Mishtamai, two voices cannot be heard simultaneously." (Thanks--or not--to Rabbi Howard Jachter's "The Parameters of Kol Isha" for the reference: Megila 21b.)
So here's the obvious implication: The young ladies in Fudge's post had to go hide themselves on a stairway, a flight or so away from the male a capella group and completely invisible to them, in order to join them in singing z'mirot (Sabbath table songs) in harmony because they didn't consider it permissible for them to sing even such sacred songs in harmony with the guys when they were actually seated at the table, since they were visible to the young men while seated there.
Is that the thanks I would get for becoming Orthodox, that if my husband and I invited guests for Shabbat and some of them were male, I would be forbidden to harmonize during kiddush, z'mirot, and Birkat haMazon (Grace after Meals), even though I was in my own home?!
See also: Onan's real sin and kol isha
So here's the obvious implication: The young ladies in Fudge's post had to go hide themselves on a stairway, a flight or so away from the male a capella group and completely invisible to them, in order to join them in singing z'mirot (Sabbath table songs) in harmony because they didn't consider it permissible for them to sing even such sacred songs in harmony with the guys when they were actually seated at the table, since they were visible to the young men while seated there.
Is that the thanks I would get for becoming Orthodox, that if my husband and I invited guests for Shabbat and some of them were male, I would be forbidden to harmonize during kiddush, z'mirot, and Birkat haMazon (Grace after Meals), even though I was in my own home?!
See also: Onan's real sin and kol isha
posted by Shira Salamone at 8:51 AM
4 Comments:
In my home, you would be welcome to harmonize. In the home of a Bostoner friend of mine you would not be. In your own home, your rules should apply - if someone feels sufficiently strongly they should leave the table and never accept another invitation to your place.
Larry, thank you. Every now and then, I need to be reminded that there are various approaches to the interpretation of halachah/Jewish religious law within the Orthodox community.
I suppose I could solve the problem by telling people in advance that I love to sing harmony and giving them the opportunity to "suddenly remember that they have another invitation."
Shira,
In the vast majority of Modern Ortho houses, like Larry's and mine, women sing zmirot with the men. The Sridei Eish's ruling on zmirot is clear and accepted by nearly all Modern Orthos (I'd say all, but there's always that one outlier), and, most importantly, he rejects the idea of trei kalei.
As to harmony, it's fine by me as long as you don't mess up the melody!
There is also an opinion, not widely adopted (yet?) by Rav Bigman, from Yeshivat kibbutz ha'dati who states that a woman with the proper motivation and singing appropriately is not prohibited from singing even solo in front of men. Whether that will be adopted further, I don't know.
One further point and no offense meant here: Fudge is/was in college. You are, umm, more seasoned. College folks (particularly YU/Stern) tend to be particularly hardline. You tend to mellow a bit with a wife and kids, particularly if your wife grew up Mod Orth. (Let's just say that my wife mellowed me quite a bit!)
And one point I'd make, is that I'd rather be Orthodox and singing zmirot (with or without harmony) than not-Orthodox and not observing shabbat. You have to acknowledge that you are a rarity -- an observant Conservo jew. It's one of the reasons I left the Conservative movement. I chose shabbos over doctrine.
JDub, I hope that Rav Bigman's opinion will gain wide acceptance.
"You are, umm, more seasoned.." Umm, yeah. :)
"You have to acknowledge that you are a rarity -- an observant Conservo jew." I'm not sure I fit that description, since I still travel (by means other than my feet) on Shabbat/Sabbath, but I'm probably more observant than most of my friends and family. Recently, I mentioned to some of my oldest buddies that I'd decided, a couple of years ago, to start trying to daven (pray) three times a day because, with my only child now 26 years old, I really had no excuse not to do so. It occurred to me afterward that they probably thought I'd lost my marbles. I think I can count the number of Conservative Jewish friends of mine who pray even once a day on one hand. Maybe I'm hanging out with the wrong friends.
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